WEEK 177--What is craft beer--a chat with Hong Kong & Taiwan geek friends

Among the Chinese language using Asian cities--Besides Mainland China which i'm not that familiar with---both Hong Kong and Taiwan have rather active craft beer communities--be it on social media or on ground activities--this piece is a chat with 2 of my geek friends--Kenneth Ho from Hong Kong & Andy Hung from Taiwan--both are active members as well admins respectively for Hong Kong and Taiwan beer geeks social media group. 

 with some Hong Kong & Taiwan geeks in Tokyo during MBCT18 week-- including Kenneth on right 1 & Andy on right 2

香港台湾都有活跃的CRAFT BEER社交媒体社团。这期找来港台啤迷朋友，同时也是港台精酿啤酒社团主要管理员的KENNETH HO和ANDY HUNG聊聊CRAFT BEER概念。

Here's a few questions i asked--and their answers(Original answers in Mandarin by Kenneth & Andy---while English transcript by me--meaning it's not 100% as per Mandarin version)

1) what is craft beer to you?

Kenneth

probably water of life---it's suitable both for drinking alone as well sharing--for me personally--friends i have made through craft beer as well the experiences gained from beer judging (^active member of BJCP) has become something not to be missed.....

Andy

Everyone has different preferences--the varied styles of craft beer is like people with different characters--it's not about who's higher or lower but more of a demonstration of each and every uniqueness. Craft beer is not simply something more pricey with cool label designs and only for "people with taste"---it is about craftsmanship, giving the best efforts and focusing on improvements in making tasty honest brew--which sort of explained why the independence of craft breweries is so importance to many geeks.

1）喝craft beer对你来说是什么？

KENNETH

大概是生命之水吧（笑），一方面說是一種社交酒精飲品，但同時適合個人獨自品嚐。

對於個人而這，從 craft beer 認識的朋友、作為啤酒評審的體驗，已經成為生命中不可缺少的一部份吧。

ANDY

每人主觀感受不同，而每一款craft beer就像是有不同個性的你我， 所謂百人百味，多元風格只在展現自身獨特個性，並非要分出高下。craft beer 絕非只是價格比較高、外觀看起來比較有設計感、喝起來感覺像品味人士的啤酒，而是秉持著 craftsmanship 也就是職人精神, 不斷精進品質以誠信為本釀出來的啤酒，或許有技術、設備上等等的差異，但是秉持"用心"的初衷，端出的啤酒才是craft beer，這也是為什麼酒廠/啤酒品牌的獨立性這麼被大家看重。

2) when new to craft beer drinking--is it best to try as many different styles possible or it's fine to just keep to one or two styles?

Kenneth

It's good to try many different styles in the beginning---after finding that favourite style/s of yours--one can choose to keep to those one or two styles if so wishes---though it's always fun to try out different styles from time to time.

Andy

with so many varieties of styles --it's good to start trying out many different styles--with different breweries having their style/interpretation of same style beer--even the classic beer style would see some changes---though it's inevitable that after drinking for a certain period of time--drinkers would have his/her preferred beer style--personally i would say never stop being curious and keep exploring--every different phase( of a drinker's palate appreciation level) would bring different tasting experience( even if drinking the same beer few years apart)---trying out rarely drink styles at times is one way to gaining different  tasting experiences.

2）喝craft beer需要多方位不同类型风格都试？ 还是独沽一两味就好？

KENNETH

我想剛喝的時候什麼都試一下，找到了自己的心頭好之後就可以獨沽一兩味吧！有時候喝喝不同風格的啤酒，都是一個有趣的體驗。

ANDY

初期最好是多元嘗試，畢竟craft beer在風格表現上百家齊放，就算是經典風格經過不同酒廠的演繹也會有不同面貌，而何況craft beer也是持續在進化，很多啤酒風格其實出現歷史也還不久，尚未完全定型，但當然喝久了以後有個人偏好是無可避免的，但對我來說，永遠不要放棄探索的好奇心，每個階段的感受都不同，偶爾喝喝少品嘗的風格總會有不一樣的收穫.

3) any words to newbies?

Kenneth

go ahead and try all first (chuckle)---understanding what you are looking for in a beer is key--do you just want to drink whatever that's available---to keep chasing the "rare beers" or it is good enough to find some favourites--you will know the answer deep down.

Andy

Do not limit yourself when exploring different styles of beer---the passion will come naturally when one enjoy exploring---after finding out a few favourite beer styles--it's good to explore the benchmark brews/classic ones to understand better---for a start it's good to have geek friends or good craft beer bar/shop people as guide---craft beer is something best when sharing--especially with liked minded people/geeks---sharing is a more inspiring experience than drinking alone while studying a thick book about beer guide.

3）想对刚接触craft beer朋友说的话？

KENNETH

先喝一圈看看（笑），了解自己想在旌陽啤酒裡找到什麼？是什麼都喝一遍嗎？還是不斷的追求限量款項，或是找到自己的心頭好就足夠了？大概心目中已經有一個答案了。

ANDY

先多方嘗試不設限, 享受喝酒的樂趣才能延續熱情, 找到自己喜歡喝的幾種風格後, 可以開始有系統的廣泛探索各類經典風格,  能有已經比較熟稔的朋友或是店家帶著喝是最好的, 或是找到一群志同道合的朋友一起喝, 雖然偶爾自己小酌很好, 但獨樂樂不如眾樂樂, craft beer 在本質上更適合大家分享討論互動, 絕對是比自己悶著頭對照書籍去喝能有更多啟發。

4) anything to say about your home city's current craft scene? ( local breweries/imported beers included)

Kenneth

Imported beers need to be cold-chained transported---that should be the  basic requirements though how to balance out quality control vs costing is something (importers) need to figure out---as for local breweries--the standards of brew by some Asia based breweries has seen improvements--some styles has seen standards on par with imported ones---so can't go wrong with <Drink Fresh, Drink Local>.

Andy

Recently Taiwan has seen some importers focusing on cold-chained transporting which ensured we can have fairly fresh IPAs (without the issues of dead hops or other undesirable flavours from badly managed beers)---some even flown in fresh meaning it's possible to drink an IPA with 1 week or so canned/bottling date----big improvement compared to 4-5 years ago--drinking fresh ( for beer styles needing to be drank fresher) would go a long way to helping drinkers understand the importance of drinking fresh (when necessary).

The craft scene is rather small in Taiwan--though there are more exposure on craft beer it is still not big enough to support the whole structure of craft beer industry--where importers are still struggling to meet geeks demand for varieties of new beers--and local breweries are still finding their footing in competing with the benchmark brews internationally (which could mean less attractive to geeks looking for certain level of brews.)

There are quite many new local breweries/ beer brands joining the scene--it is good to be able to taste a fresh good local brew occasionally--but overall there are many who are focusing their brand/products on so called " local values" (which in a way is about saying local should support local rather than support basing on high quality of brew) which is not a sustainable strategy---is it about trying to make some quick money or trying to be sustainable in the longer run--that is the question some local breweries need to think long and hard---also how to have own characteristics/uniqueness is something to consider.

4）对市场现况（在地酿坊/进口类型）有什么要说的？

KENNETH

進口酒要冷鍊運輸及保存，這是對行業的基本要求吧！在品質跟成本的控制上，這個是最頭痛的考量吧！

對於本地酒，亞洲多國的釀造水準不斷提高，某些風格上跟進口酒已不相伯仲，「Drink Fresh, Drink Local」是錯不了的。

ANDY

以進口商來說，近年來開始重視冷鏈, 許多風格才得以喝到新鮮無不良風味的樣貌, 有時為了能讓消費者喝到更新鮮狀態也會採空運來台, 甚至能喝到裝罐/瓶才一周的新鮮IPA, 其實相較五六年前已經進步很多, 能喝到新鮮風味才能夠提升台灣消費者對啤酒的品味標準。
但craft beer在台灣一直是非常小眾的愛好，即便現今在大眾的曝光度已好上許多，但某方面來說要撐起整個產業發展動能還是不夠，也因此有時進口商無法能及時滿足啤迷新酒新品牌五花八門的渴求，說到底，啤酒始終主要是以「追求新鮮」為主的在地化產業，如果本土已經釀得出一定水準的作品，尋求外在的渴求就會降低。
因此以台灣本土酒廠來說， 這幾年新酒廠與品牌如雨後春筍不斷冒出，但 進口商對運輸和保存條件的要求提高，也影響到台灣消費者對本土酒廠作品的要求隨之提高，偶爾能在台灣喝到品質不錯的新鮮啤酒很值得開心，但有些酒廠或品牌只是一味訴諸台灣價值而不是在自身釀酒基礎上求進步，個人認為這不是永續經營之道，到底你是一窩蜂賺快錢，還是真的在地深耕產業，從各家對craft beer文化的推廣用心程度也可以略窺一二。另外各家酒廠如何做出個體差異化也是很重要的一點。

5) any recent personal beer wishes? ( can be places/beer fest or dream beer)

Kenneth

My wish was to have a high quality fresh NEIPA made locally---i can say the wish was granted already here in Hong Kong.

Andy

Firstly wishing to be a member of ANTIDOOT next allocation come December(chuckle)--and then when this Covid shit is over---hoping to explore West Coast( Cali first) or East Coast (NYC-Massachusetts).

5）个人来说，有什么近期啤酒心愿？（可以是想喝的酒款/想去的啤酒圣地）

KENNETH

有一款新鮮、水準穩定，在地釀造的NEIPA大概是個人心願吧。在香港，心願算是達成了

ANDY

以近期來說, 個人最希望能夠順利成為比利時酒廠 Antidoot 下一個年度的會員(笑), 畢竟在疫情肆虐的當下還真的是不敢奢求能出國去, 希望疫情和緩解禁後, 還能有機會前往尚未解鎖的美西(加州優先)或美東(紐約或麻州)一趟。

6) anything to add?

Andy

craft beer is where i can easily explore variety of flavours-- and not all hyped beers or what others think as "best beers" would automatically suit your taste( or say current palate appreciation level)---pick what your like--like what you pick---it's important to keep enjoying when tasting a beer.

6) 任何想说/补充的

ANDY

craft beer 對我來說是能讓我輕鬆探索多元風味的微醺世界，並不是大家都稱許的就一定是你的菜，愛你所選，選你所愛，能夠永遠以享受的心態去品飲才是最難能可貴的。

WEEK 176---the basics of "beer chasing"

It is common to hear someone was "chasing after" more beer/wine/cocktails/whisky and so on while drinking---this could be due to the state of mind of the drinker or simply because he/she was in the mood for more alcoholic beverages.....

提起追酒一词，绝大部分喝酒人都会一致认为意指“喝酒时因为觉得不够喉所以一直追加更多酒”的行为，某种意义上，追酒跟贪吃是相同的，指的是抵不过口腹之欲的行为。不过，今天这里说的追酒跟上述一般人观念中的贪杯追酒喝一点关系都没有，craft beer世界中，追酒行为指的是啤迷追寻求购某款特定酿坊作品，简单来说，跟球鞋迷瞄准某款鞋或手表迷一定要买到某特定款手表那样，都是一种目标明确的指定商品追逐行为。

BUT NO--the "beer chasing" act here has got nothing to do with what's mentioned above--here we are talking about geeks chasing after a particular bottle/styles of beer be it via original release or diving into the very much hyped up/ at times very much profits driven secondary market---all in the name of wanting to own/taste a certain beers.

In an ideal world---geeks who are seeking out for a particular bottle/s can either buy at the breweries not far from where he/she lives---but things certainly don't work out that way most of the time--especially if you live in ASIA and crave for some European/US brew--then things can become quite tricky where you probably won't be able to buy directly via web-shop(either run by the brewery or appointed shop)---which leaves you with only 1 other choice---which is to either trade bottle/s with those who have got what you wanted and willing to exchange for what you have---or lastly you would have to look at paying some silly money( if you really wanted to) to buy from at times very greedy re-seller/s bottle/s you desire.....

craft beer世界的追酒可通过几个不同方式完成，去所在城市酒吧瓶子店买到喝到想要的酒款是最简单方式，问题是很多时候自己所在城市没能找到想要酒款，这时就必须向外寻求，这多数意味着必须在欧美市场寻找，如果无法通过欧美酿坊首卖时买到的话，那就只能或通过特定欧美网店/瓶子店试图购买，再不然就只能是进到二手市场或灰黑市场用物物交换方式又或是二三四手高价求购。或许，一些新朋友对追酒，特别是跨国界海外追酒这件事并不太明了个中奥妙，以下是几个并没有明文规定的基本游戏规则：-

If you are a newbie---these are some of the basics when it comes to the game of beer chasing:-

1) Equal trade is essential

This is quite a "mutual understanding" kind of basic rules---because no one can tell you exactly which beer is of equal value/deliciousness to another---but there are somehow some common ground where beer geeks would agree upon---it's kind of like in the footballing world---if you want MESSI in your team---then you probably have to trade C.Ronaldo as exchange to constitute a seemingly "equal trade"--or just fork out hundreds of millions -you obviously cannot just throw any other player/s to Barcelona and say give me MESSI.....

So "equality"--or rather beers which are perceived as worthy of a trade is the first basic rules--for newbies wanting to join the beer trading/chasing game--perhaps one way to understanding the basics is to look at some traded record of some classics beers---as well as what's going on/trending currently---that way you would not commit the silly act of trying to ask for MESSI with a non-league player trade......

1）对等交易是基本守则

用以前人话说的话，就是要门当户对，用足球明星打个比喻的话，意思是如果想要得到梅西的话，那大概只能用C罗来交换，再不然就准备用几亿欧元来买断吧。

上述例子放在craft beer追酒行为中或许显得很抽象，因为没有人可以很准确无异议的说服大家什么酒是梅西C罗级别的，虽然那样，大部份啤迷心中都有一些“抽象共识”知道并接受什么算是属于顶级酒款，什么是比较次级的，当然都很难用一个绝对权威标准去确定，因为更多时候一款酒的“江湖地位”取决于口碑，追逐热度，稀有程度，当然也包括美味程度，但这些都是因人而异的客观条件，很难准确的说一款酒是不是梅西C罗级别或真正值得多少钱或怎么物物交换才算对等。

话虽那样说，但新朋友如果要玩追酒游戏的话，首要条件是要至少知道一些经典知名款的市场价值，然后要进一步逐渐了解什么是市场上被热捧新贵的物物交换或灰黑市场价格，这样才不会闹出比如说想以“低级别联赛球员”一对一换梅西或C罗的笑话。

2) Inequality trade does exist

This is sounding a bit silly but that's how the world works---there are people who are willing to pay really silly money for a very hyped up limited brew---or say willing to give up 10-11 perfectly fine bottles in exchange of ONE bloody small bottle---yes--however you look at it these are not equal trade/deals---but people have different wants/perceptions/desires and so long there's a willing buy and a willing seller---trade/deals will be made and no one can say what's right or wrong.

2）不对等交易也是存在的

听起来很矛盾，但craft beer社区是不同地区啤迷聚集而成，难免会有文化价值观差异，就算在强调对等为游戏规则首要条件情况下，不少时候还是会出现不对等追酒交易。

首先，追酒行为本身就有着一点“买方渴望仰视，卖方居高俯瞰”的意味，供不应求所以奇货可居的市场供需原理是清楚不过的游戏规则，这时候找酒人和有酒人相互之间的心理状态会是关键，如果想通过物物交换或灰黑市价追到心目中酒款的找酒人急切渴望的话，那就非常可能出现不对等交易，例如最近有一家名不经传的美国酿坊5周年黑啤因为市面上只有绝对非常限量首卖出去加上好口碑，一下子成为不少啤迷趋之若鹜的梅西C罗级别稀货，有人为了一求尝鲜，提出以11-12支知名酿坊绝对好酒交换一支的疯狂条件，灰黑市价更是去到接近千元美金一支。（注：一般来说美国上好啤酒首卖价从十多二十美金起跳但只有绝对极少数几家能接近100美金水平）

一款酒是不是值得用十多支其他酿坊好酒去换，又或是用那么多美金去求购当然是见仁见智的事，如果抛开个人财力只单纯以酒论述的话，那怎么看都是不对等交易，说白了，那很可能只是找酒人想一探究竟强烈好奇心（甚至是可悲的虚荣心）作祟驱动导致的，或许世上真确有那么绝少几款啤酒值得去不对等找到，但更多时候追酒还是要理性一点，毕竟世上也只有一位梅西和一位C罗。

3) of course--there are still fair deals to be found

if you need to seek out for beers outside of the first release or web-shop direct deals---there are still some fairly all right trade/deals to be found even in mostly hyped up/profit seeking secondary market so long you do not get too excited or let curiosity cloud your judgement--the point is--no matter how hyped up or how limited a beer can be---it would certainly not worth hundreds of USD or say 10-11 bottles to ONE ratio---remember---sellers can ask for the skies with that beer he/she has got--but if no one is willing to pay that asking price---then no deal will happen---though ticking that ONE beer might be "life-changing" as some put it---but it's all in the mind really---end of the day you are the one to decide for yourself if you need that beer or otherwise.

3）还是有合理交易的

无论是物物交换还是以钱换酒，什么是合理交易很大程度上依然是个人观点，但确实有一些寻求换酒或卖酒的并不是以暴利为目标，虽然不会是绝对稀货级别啤酒但肯定是值得一探究竟的上好佳酿，所以个人始终觉得，找酒人要找的什么是决定关键，因为如果没人愿意做不对等交易的话，有酒人还是只能空喊价而没能成交。

"beer chasing" can be a fun process of discovering more deliciousness( or otherwise) though it would inevitably cost you time/energy and money---for newbies---it is very important to understand that NOT all HYPED BEERS( or at times very expensive ones) will automatically taste awesome to to your taste---beer is after all about personal taste and palate tasting ability/appreciation level.   As for the question of "to chase or not to chase"--that's really up to individual's wisdom.

简单来说，追酒行为是一个因为对啤酒不同美味层次渴求的行动力表现，这是个可能让啤迷乐此不疲的无止境寻求尝鲜过程，过程免不了花时间金钱，但只要是在个人能力范围内，追酒可以是乐趣更可以是提升个人味蕾鉴赏力的一个过程，当然，很重要的是，不是稀有难寻或高价买到就代表绝对无敌好喝，这点认知一定要有。至于追到什么时候是个头，那就只能个人智慧决定了。