This though is on the newspaper column but it's more of a casual chat with geek friend than any sort of "serious or in-depth talk" about Neil's view on what he has seen & felt over the past 12 years or so living/drinking/blogging about craft beer places in and around Tokyo.
Neil是2013年认识的第一位住东京陌生人啤迷，出发前想对当地craft beer状况找概念然后搜寻到了当时以blog形式运行的Tokyo Beer Drinker网站，就这样从陌生人变成每次到东京都会见面喝酒聊天的朋友，以下是近期和Neil的聊天概要：-(篇幅所限-分为上下篇）
*As usual--English is by Neil-Mandarin is my transcripts-due to limited space of the column-the chat will be in 2 parts.
1) How did Tokyo Beer Drinker came about? Any particular trigger point which started this?
When I moved to Japan in 2012 there wasn’t much of an English language online presence when it came to Japanese Craft Beer. I can think of one site but it was inactive and after trying to visit yet another bar they recommended that had closed down, I thought I should try to do something myself. Obviously even then, there were lots of people who wrote or posted about beer, but I think that is something that is a bit too subjective to have much impact. Unless you know the person and their taste, the recommendation of or warning to avoid a certain beer isn’t that helpful. There weren’t many places to drink craft beer in those days so the idea of making some kind of resource to tell people where those few bars that did serve craft beer were seemed achievable. But once the scene started to boom it became clear that there was no way I was going to be able to keep the site fully up to date so now the focus has shifted slightly towards more interesting places and away from trying to be comprehensive.
When I moved to Japan in 2012 there wasn’t much of an English language online presence when it came to Japanese Craft Beer. I can think of one site but it was inactive and after trying to visit yet another bar they recommended that had closed down, I thought I should try to do something myself. Obviously even then, there were lots of people who wrote or posted about beer, but I think that is something that is a bit too subjective to have much impact. Unless you know the person and their taste, the recommendation of or warning to avoid a certain beer isn’t that helpful. There weren’t many places to drink craft beer in those days so the idea of making some kind of resource to tell people where those few bars that did serve craft beer were seemed achievable. But once the scene started to boom it became clear that there was no way I was going to be able to keep the site fully up to date so now the focus has shifted slightly towards more interesting places and away from trying to be comprehensive.
1）什么情况下想到写东京craft beer博客？
2012年移居东京後发现网上很少英语撰写的日本craft beer资讯，当时发现的一个英文网站已不活跃，根据网站资讯去的一家酒吧也已经结业， 当时网上也有不少啤酒相关个人观点推荐或避雷贴文但都过于主观并不适合，于是就想不如自己来写。
那时的东京专卖吧并不多，设立一个集合相关资讯让人知道哪里哪几家有craft beer喝的想法是可行的，不过随着市场情况逐渐出现变化，专卖吧品饮室瓶子店数量大幅度增加後，一人之力明显已不可能做到巨细无遗，近年关注点偏向探访较有特质有趣味的酒吧，不再试图做到全方位探索/记录。
2) During the time were there any particular moment which make you think "why am I still writing?"
All the time! I’ve met some nice people who have reached out to me over the years and some people have been very generous when it came to buying me beers as a thank you for my site. But when I check the amount of people who are reading the posts but who don’t interact in any way it becomes a bit disheartening. I totally understand that nowadays everything has become devalued. We now live in a world where people expect music to be something they get for free for example, so I get it when people don’t use my donation button or even contact me to say thanks for the resource. But I think in the many years I have the PayPal donation button I’ve had not more than five donations. Obviously I don’t do it for the money, and have refused to put advertising on the site as I want it to be impartial, but although visiting bars is a lot of fun, it is a money and time intensive hobby, so sometimes when I visit a new brewery that I think is probably not going to be great just to put it on the site, I do wonder if I could be doing something more important instead!
All the time! I’ve met some nice people who have reached out to me over the years and some people have been very generous when it came to buying me beers as a thank you for my site. But when I check the amount of people who are reading the posts but who don’t interact in any way it becomes a bit disheartening. I totally understand that nowadays everything has become devalued. We now live in a world where people expect music to be something they get for free for example, so I get it when people don’t use my donation button or even contact me to say thanks for the resource. But I think in the many years I have the PayPal donation button I’ve had not more than five donations. Obviously I don’t do it for the money, and have refused to put advertising on the site as I want it to be impartial, but although visiting bars is a lot of fun, it is a money and time intensive hobby, so sometimes when I visit a new brewery that I think is probably not going to be great just to put it on the site, I do wonder if I could be doing something more important instead!
2）从开始至今有没有过“为什么还在写”的想法？
这些年来遇到不少通过博客/网站联系的人，也有请喝酒以示谢意的人，不过有时候看到访问网站但从不互动的人数时会感到有点泄气。
我了解这是个很多东西都被低估甚至被视为免费的时代，比如很多人理所当然的觉得音乐是不用付费的，所以能理解一些网站使用者从不联系或致谢，实际上网站设置的“乐捐” 按钮这些年来只被按过5次，的确网站不是为了赚钱而做，为了保持中立也拒绝广告植入，不过要知道的是探访酒吧酿坊品饮室都是花钱花时间的事，所以有时探访新酿坊但预感很可能不会精彩时，会想是不是应该把时间花在其他更重要事物上。
3) It's been more than 10 years of writing about visits to craft beer places in Japan, what are some of your observations over the years?
Of course now there are A LOT more places! This seems like it would be a good thing, and I’d agree that mostly this is the case. Certainly Craft Beer has become a lot easier to drink. At the same time, I think there are many bars that don’t offer anything new or original or even offer something with a little bit of soul. With its increasing popularity, Craft Beer has become a viable business opportunity for some people, and when I visit a bar and the overwhelming impression I get is that I’m getting rinsed for my money it’s quite depressing. At the same time though, there are many wonderful little places who might not offer anything out of the ordinary when it comes to beer selection but offer loads of atmosphere and finding one of these places makes everything worthwhile. Over the last two years I’ve been slowly making my way to all of the cities, towns and villages that make up Tokyo, (there are a lot!), and it has taken me to some places I never would have been to otherwise and some very unique bars. In the past I think if somewhere was a ‘Craft Beer Bar’ that would be enough for people to head in its direction. Now I think there has to be a bit more passion or consideration in what they are offering. Quite a lot of the old places that seemed very exciting when I started writing the blog seem to have not moved with the times and are getting left behind.
Of course now there are A LOT more places! This seems like it would be a good thing, and I’d agree that mostly this is the case. Certainly Craft Beer has become a lot easier to drink. At the same time, I think there are many bars that don’t offer anything new or original or even offer something with a little bit of soul. With its increasing popularity, Craft Beer has become a viable business opportunity for some people, and when I visit a bar and the overwhelming impression I get is that I’m getting rinsed for my money it’s quite depressing. At the same time though, there are many wonderful little places who might not offer anything out of the ordinary when it comes to beer selection but offer loads of atmosphere and finding one of these places makes everything worthwhile. Over the last two years I’ve been slowly making my way to all of the cities, towns and villages that make up Tokyo, (there are a lot!), and it has taken me to some places I never would have been to otherwise and some very unique bars. In the past I think if somewhere was a ‘Craft Beer Bar’ that would be enough for people to head in its direction. Now I think there has to be a bit more passion or consideration in what they are offering. Quite a lot of the old places that seemed very exciting when I started writing the blog seem to have not moved with the times and are getting left behind.
3）写了超过十年东京和日本其他地方的craft beer探寻文後有什么观察？
最明显的是酒吧瓶子店数量比以前多了很多，craft beer变得更容易接触到，这是好事。不过也意味着这是一门可行的生意，一些酒吧完全不提升酒单选择，也有酒吧让人感觉在设法让人掏更多钱，这是让人气馁的现象。
还好的是东京和周边地区还是能找到很有氛围/感觉的酒吧，近两年来去了不少归纳为东京周边地区的城镇乡区，也发现一些很有自家特色的小酒吧，如果说早期只要是专卖吧就值得一去，如今则需看酒吧对酒单的专注和热忱。实际上也有一些当初开始写博客时让人感觉惊喜的酒吧多年来停滞不前感觉已跟不上时代变化。
4) Is craft beer becoming more popular / commonly accepted with more noticeable Japanese locals breweries coming to the scene?
Yes, as I mentioned above, there is an ongoing explosion of new bars and breweries. Even the pandemic and lockdown period didn’t really stop the wave of new places opening. It did kill off quite a few bars though, which is obviously a shame. But I think it’s a lot easier to survive if you’re offering something different. With this increase in new breweries and places, I think the awareness of Craft Beer is also growing. Many of the major breweries in Japan have ‘Craft’ beer lines now and I wish they weren’t allowed to use that language to describe their products but I think this is something that bothers me more than it bothers most people. Also at the moment the yen is very weak so I guess this means it’s not as easy to import things to Japan. Imports have always been an important part of the beer scene here but I wonder if the prices of imports might be affecting their popularity. One slight problem I have is Japanese breweries who seem to think they should sell their beers at import prices because they are the same kind of beer styles. I tend to avoid these breweries as they just seem to be taking the piss.
Yes, as I mentioned above, there is an ongoing explosion of new bars and breweries. Even the pandemic and lockdown period didn’t really stop the wave of new places opening. It did kill off quite a few bars though, which is obviously a shame. But I think it’s a lot easier to survive if you’re offering something different. With this increase in new breweries and places, I think the awareness of Craft Beer is also growing. Many of the major breweries in Japan have ‘Craft’ beer lines now and I wish they weren’t allowed to use that language to describe their products but I think this is something that bothers me more than it bothers most people. Also at the moment the yen is very weak so I guess this means it’s not as easy to import things to Japan. Imports have always been an important part of the beer scene here but I wonder if the prices of imports might be affecting their popularity. One slight problem I have is Japanese breweries who seem to think they should sell their beers at import prices because they are the same kind of beer styles. I tend to avoid these breweries as they just seem to be taking the piss.
4）近几年更多日本在地酿坊的出现意味着craft beer更为人知被更多人接受了？
的确，近期新酒吧和新酿坊涌现就说明了情况，就算是新冠疫情期间虽然有关闭的但也有新店开设，这些新开设的酒吧/瓶子店一定程度上让更多人认识craft beer。实际上日本一些大厂也看到这个趋势而开设自身的所谓craft品牌产品，个人来说觉得大厂不应该被允许使用上述字眼以免混淆视听。此外，日圆汇率的疲弱也可能在某些程度上影响进口外国酿坊啤酒的售价并导致销量受影响，个人也对一些日本在地酿坊以进口啤酒价格为自家同类型风格啤酒定等同价位的做法不认同。
In the first boom of craft beer in Japan, before I came here, plenty of breweries opened with a kind of German template. So it’s long been the case that Pilsners, Weizens, Alts etc. were everywhere. Plenty of these breweries still exist and are still doing the same thing. The quality of these places varies considerably but I have to say I always enjoy visiting them. And with some of these styles becoming more fashionable recently some of these breweries are finding themselves in a great position. Around the time I arrived more modern styles were becoming popular. Of course the US scene is so big that I think every country’s scene has been influenced by it. But I think plenty of Japanese breweries took on these imported styles and put their own twist on them which is something I’ve always been a fan of. I’m not a fan of hazies, so I’m slightly disappointed that the Japanese scene has embraced them so much and for so long, but I guess this is unavoidable. Nowadays, I’d say that there are plenty of styles available, with a decent amount of breweries who are trying to do something interesting, but plenty of other breweries who aren’t particularly. I think some foreign residents of Japan look down on Japanese beers and I think this is hugely patronising. On recent visits to the UK and to Belgium I’ve had beers by breweries that people had talked up and I thought they just weren’t as good as similar ones being made in Japan. Of course there are some dodgy beers being made here, but I think some people’s oversimplification of Japanese stuff automatically being inferior to imported stuff is nonsense.
As for price, I think this is starting to become a problem. Not a problem for visitors due to the weak yen, but for people who live here, Craft Beer is becoming even more of a luxury than it was before. I don’t know if the bubble is going to burst soon, but it’s definitely becoming more difficult for me to afford and justify the prices some places are asking. Sure, maybe your brewery spent a lot of money on the image and the labels and the decor of the taproom so you charge a lot, but if the beer isn’t very good, you’re just going to be shooting yourself in the foot as people will wise up sooner or later.
As for price, I think this is starting to become a problem. Not a problem for visitors due to the weak yen, but for people who live here, Craft Beer is becoming even more of a luxury than it was before. I don’t know if the bubble is going to burst soon, but it’s definitely becoming more difficult for me to afford and justify the prices some places are asking. Sure, maybe your brewery spent a lot of money on the image and the labels and the decor of the taproom so you charge a lot, but if the beer isn’t very good, you’re just going to be shooting yourself in the foot as people will wise up sooner or later.
5）对日本在不同类型风格啤酒/质素/价格的感受是什么？
移居东京前，日本在地酿坊主要以德式啤酒风格为模仿对象，德式淡啤/小麦啤酒是主流，时至今日不少德式风格酿坊/酒吧还继续存在而且随着近年类似风格的流行让这些酿坊/酒吧重回焦点。
美式啤酒类型风格对craft beer界的影响毋庸置疑，不少日本酿坊也吸收了美式影响并化为己用，这是个人欣赏的，不过对近年非常流行的类果汁印度淡啤(Hazy IPA)也广受日本酿坊酒吧和喝酒人欢迎倒是觉得有点出乎意料。
日本不同类型风格作品很多但被有些常住的外国人轻视，这是相对偏见，不久前去了英国和比利时喝到一些被追捧的酿坊作品但感觉日本的相同类型作品更对味，所以一些认为进口啤酒一定比日本在地啤酒优秀是过于片面的错误看法，
至于价格方面，对游客来说由于日圆汇率疲弱这不是问题，但对常住当地的却是个难题，跟多年前对比craft beer已逐渐变成一种奢侈消费。
